هل تريد التفاعل مع هذه المساهمة؟ كل ما عليك هو إنشاء حساب جديد ببضع خطوات أو تسجيل الدخول للمتابعة.
بحـث
نتائج البحث
بحث متقدم
المواضيع الأخيرة
شرح الطرق المختلفة للربح من الانترنتالخميس يوليو 30, 2020 2:07 pmHarmman420
نصائح لربح المال من الإنترنتالإثنين يوليو 20, 2020 3:33 pmHarmman420
ماهي افضل تمارين تقسيم البطن في شهر ؟الخميس مارس 15, 2018 1:40 pmHarmman420
مادة الليكوبين وفوائدها الثلاثاء يناير 09, 2018 6:47 pmHarmman420
وأما بنعمة ربك فحدث / د.أحمد عمارةالأحد سبتمبر 17, 2017 10:35 pmHarmman420
full body workout programالجمعة ديسمبر 11, 2015 10:39 pmHarmman420
كتاب : اجعلني مليونير make me a MILLIONAIRE السبت فبراير 21, 2015 7:49 pmHarmman420
د. أحمد عمارة \ لاتحزن الإثنين أكتوبر 13, 2014 6:24 pmHarmman420
قوة العطاء الإثنين أكتوبر 13, 2014 5:57 pmHarmman420
فيديو تحفيزي لبناء الطاقة الإيجابيةالثلاثاء سبتمبر 23, 2014 5:25 amHarmman420
كيف تحل مشاكلك بسهولة الثلاثاء سبتمبر 23, 2014 5:12 amHarmman420
أهمية الخيال في تغيير الواقعالثلاثاء سبتمبر 23, 2014 5:07 amHarmman420
هل يجب بناء العضلات للدفاع عن النفس ؟الأربعاء سبتمبر 10, 2014 4:36 amHarmman420
كيف تشعر بالراحة ؟السبت أغسطس 23, 2014 6:45 pmHarmman420
الإدراك ، وجود الله ، وعدالة الله الجمعة يوليو 25, 2014 5:17 pmHarmman420
نصدق من ؟ كيف نثق بكلامهم ؟الثلاثاء يوليو 22, 2014 4:41 pmHarmman420

Harmman420
Harmman420
الإدارة
عدد المساهمات : 3342
تاريخ التسجيل : 23/08/2009
العمر : 34
https://khawlacreepa.yoo7.com
16092010
Important Note:


We worship GOD Almighty in His Grand Temple/House. We never worship the House itself! The Bible's Prophets in the Bible also had a "House of GOD Almighty" that they worshiped Him in. Also, the Jews' wailing wall today is a similar example to the Muslims' Kaaba, where the Jews pray to GOD Almighty facing the wall. The Bible also says:
"I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 138:2)"
GOD Almighty's Holy Temple in Islam is the Kaaba in Mecca.




Q11- If Islam is so against any form of idol worship, why do they bow to the kaaba? Why do they call it God's House? Do they believe He lives there?
The sections of this article are:
1- The House/Temple of GOD Almighty in the Noble Quran and the Bible.
2- But aren't Muslims still physically bowing down to the Kaaba itself?

(a)- The blood of a Muslim Believer is more precious than the entire Kaaba! the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Pulsar
(b)- In Christianity, the temple is Holy. See pictures of GOD Almighty by these infidels!
(i)- The Bible forbade making images of GOD Almighty!
Exodus 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below."

(ii)- But the portraits are not images and idols?!
3- What is the difference then between the hindu idols and the Kaba?
4- What about the black stone near the Kaaba? How sacred is it?


NASA confirms that the black stone was indeed sent from space.

5- Is the Jews' wailing wall idol worship?
6- Conclusion.



1- The House/Temple of GOD Almighty in the Noble Quran and the Bible:
To help the Jewish and Christian reader understand the Islamic way of Worship better, I'd like to first present the following from the Bible:
Psalm 138:2
I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.GOD Almighty's Holy Temple in Islam is the Kaaba in Mecca.

Genesis 28:16-18
16 When Jacob awoke from his sleep, he thought, "Surely the LORD is in this place, and I was not aware of it."
17 He was afraid and said, "How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God; this is the gate of heaven."
18 Early the next morning Jacob took the stone he had placed under his head and set it up as a pillar and poured oil on top of it.


Judges 20:18
18 The Israelites went up to Bethel (the House of GOD in Hebrew) and inquired of God. They said, "Who of us shall go first to fight against the Benjamites?" The LORD replied, "Judah shall go first."
1 Chronicles 6:47-49
47 the son of Mahli, the son of Mushi, the son of Merari, the son of Levi.
48 Their fellow Levites were assigned to all the other duties of the tabernacle, the house of God.
49 But Aaron and his descendants were the ones who presented offerings on the altar of burnt offering and on the altar of incense in connection with all that was done in the Most Holy Place, making atonement for Israel, in accordance with all that Moses the servant of God had commanded.


"Behold! We gave the site, To Abraham, of the (Sacred) House (i.e., the Kaaba), (Saying): 'Associate not anything (In worship) with Me; And sanctify My House For those who compass it round, Or stand up, Or bow, or prostrate themselves (Therein in prayer). And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men: they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; (The Noble Quran, 22:26-27)"

As we clearly see, the "House of GOD"Almighty is mentioned in both the Bible and the Noble Quran. The Prostration to GOD Almighty in either His House or in the direction of His House (if you live far away) is the most proper way of Worship according to both the Bible and the Noble Quran.
As we also clearly see, the House of GOD Almighty was mentioned in the Bible first. The Kaba or Kaaba (the black cube building in Saudi Arabia) is basically the symbolic point on earth (His House) that GOD Almighty Chose to have all of His True Believers meet Him through bowing down their faces in humility down to the ground before Him.
The actual bricks and cement that make up the Kaaba are not holy.
They are no more holier than the bricks and cement that we see on regular basis in the towns that we live in.


While it is true that many ignorant and illiterate Muslims might incline toward idol worship and do consider the actual Kaaba as a very sacred thing to a point where they would go as far as rubbing their bodies against it to get "blessings", but these people are not representing the True picture of Islam. If a person worships the Kaaba itself, then he/she becomes an idol worshiper:
"Behold! We gave the site, To Abraham, of the (Sacred) House (i.e., the Kaaba), (Saying): 'Associate not anything (In worship) with Me; And sanctify My House For those who compass it round, Or stand up, Or bow, or prostrate themselves (Therein in prayer). And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men: they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; (The Noble Quran, 22:26-27)"
"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"
"God forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with God is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed. (The Noble Quran, 4:48)"
"Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to God, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For God did take Abraham for a friend. (The Noble Quran, 4:125)"
The Kaaba is only the House of GOD Almighty and is the meeting place for us to meet the Almighty LORD by bowing down our faces in humility down to the ground before Him in that direction.
GOD Almighty Chose that spot on earth to be the meeting place with Him, because It is His Grand Temple.

We Worship Allah Almighty in His House/Temple. We never worship the Temple itself.


Since Allah Almighty ordered Abraham the father of Ishmael and Isaac peace be upon them to build the Kaaba, people called it the House of GOD Almighty, and it became the direction for us to bow down to Allah Almighty in worship:
"Behold! We gave the site, To Abraham, of the (Sacred) House (i.e., the Kaaba), (Saying): 'Associate not anything (In worship) with Me; And sanctify My House For those who compass it round, Or stand up, Or bow, or prostrate themselves (Therein in prayer). And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men: they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; (The Noble Quran, 22:26-27)"
So when Muslims prostrate to Allah Almighty, they prostrate in the direction that is as close as possible to Him. It was also prophesied in the Noble Quran that people from all over the world would come to the city of Mecca (where the Kaaba is located) for pilgrimage.
Please visit: The detailed story of how the Kaaba was built by Abraham and his son Ishmael peace be upon them.
During the early days of Islam, the Muslims were commanded to bow down to Allah Almighty in the direction of the Farthest Mosque (Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa) in Jerusalem, because it was the Holiest Mosque/Temple to worship Allah Almighty in back since it was not defiled with idols. Allah Almighty then commanded Prophet Muhammad to order the Muslims to prostrate to Allah Almighty in the direction of the Kaaba in Mecca, because it was the House of GOD Almighty which was built by Prophet Abraham peace be upon him (mentioned also in the Bible), and because after the Muslims liberated Mecca in a 10,000 men army (this event was prophesied in the Bible), they cleaned the Kaaba from all idols.


2- But aren't Muslims still physically bowing down to the Kaaba itself?
We've already seen the "House of GOD"Almighty in both the Bible and the Noble Quran above. We've seen how the Prostration to GOD Almighty in either His House or in the direction of His House (if you live far away) is the most proper way of Worship.
Again, to help the Jewish and Christian reader understand the Islamic point better, I'd like to present the following from the Bible:
Numbers 24:3-5
3 and he uttered his oracle: "The oracle of Balaam son of Beor, the oracle of one whose eye sees clearly,
4 the oracle of one who hears the words of God, who sees a vision from the Almighty, who falls prostrate, and whose eyes are opened:
5 "How beautiful are your tents, O Jacob, your dwelling places, O Israel!

Deuteronomy 9:17-19
17 So I took the two tablets and threw them out of my hands, breaking them to pieces before your eyes.
18 Then once again I fell prostrate before the LORD for forty days and forty nights; I ate no bread and drank no water, because of all the sin you had committed, doing what was evil in the LORD's sight and so provoking him to anger.
19 I feared the anger and wrath of the LORD, for he was angry enough with you to destroy you. But again the LORD listened to me.

Deuteronomy 9:25
25 I lay prostrate before the LORD those forty days and forty nights because the LORD had said he would destroy you.
1 Kings 18:39
39 When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, "The LORD -he is God! The LORD -he is God!"
Even Jesus, peace be upon him, bowed down to Allah Almighty the Islamic way:
"Going a little farther, he [Jesus] fell with his face to the ground and prayed, 'My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.' (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 26:39)"
When Muslims bow down to Allah Almighty in worship at their homes, they do not for instance bow down to the sofa, or to the pair of shoes, or to the table, or to the wall, or to the door, or to the TV, or to any object that is in front of them in their homes. They bow down to Allah Almighty only, regardless what's in front of them AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT WORSHIPING THAT OBJECT. The Kaaba is the same thing. We do not bow down to it in worship in any shape or form. We bow down only to Allah Almighty in its direction because it is His Appointed House where He symbolically meets His Servants and True Believers.
The Kaaba makes the millions of Muslims all over the world Pray to Allah Almighty as one unified community.
The direction of the Kaaba not only unifies the Muslims, but it also maximizes the Glorification and Praising of GOD Almighty.
It maximizes the Glorification of GOD Almighty, because in the 5-daily Prayers, it is not only the individual who is Praising GOD, but also the millions of the Muslims world-wide (who are on the same time) are doing it almost simultaneously as if they were ONE CLOSE COMMUNITY.


Now in regards to whether Allah Almighty living there or not, no we do not believe that Allah Almighty lives there. Allah Almighty is unlimited and is every where.
By the way, the Orthodox Jews too bow down to GOD Almighty in worship. Below is a picture of how Jews worship Allah Almighty:
the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Jews-2


(a)- The blood of a Muslim Believer is more precious than the entire Kaaba!
Some anti-Islamics tried to compare the Muslims' bowing towards the Kaaba to the hindus' deification and glorification of their stones, by making idol gods and holy temples for these gods out of them. Islam is far from this!
The hindus glorification of stones and rocks is not Islamic. We do not worship neither the Kaaba nor the black stone. In fact Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said in his famous saying that:
لهدم الكعبة حجراً حجراً أهون من قتل المسلم‏

"Demolishing the Kaaba completely is much more preferred to Allah Almighty than shedding the blood of a Believing Muslim." (Source)

Why should this be of any surprise, when Allah Almighty had brought down all of the Angels under the feet of the human-believers when He commanded them to bow down to Adam?

So no, we do not worship rocks and stones.

(b)- In Christianity, the Temple is Holy:
Matthew 23:21
16 "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
18 You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
20 Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
21 And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
22 And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.

This is another example of why Christianity is full of corruption. No temple should be holy enough to equate it with GOD Almighty. By you swearing by the temple and by GOD Almighty, you are in essence making them both equal. This is a form of idol-worship. Notice how even Jesus himself said that the temple makes the gold that is in it sacred, and for the altar also making the gift sacred.
These verses are some of the reasons why you see 'holy idols' of Jesus, Mary, the Angels, and even GOD Almighty (!) in all of the Christians' churches. The Church, as an object, is a holy place to them - so holy that they could and would swear by it. And these idol-objects become holy by the Church.
Please visit: Allah Almighty delcared the false religion of christianity to be no more than a man-made religion of "conjecture".
Here are some of the blasphemous pictures that these infidels put in their churches about GOD Almighty Himself:
(Click on any of the images to enlarge)
(Catholics and NON-Catholic portraits)
the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Christian_blasphemy_1 the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Christian_blasphemy_2 the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Christian_blasphemy_3 the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Christian_blasphemy_4 the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Christian_blasphemy_5
the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Christian_blasphemy_6 the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Christian_blasphemy_7 the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Christian_blasphemy_8 the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Christian_blasphemy_9 the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Christian_blasphemy_10
See also Jesus having long hair is considered stupid by Paul.

(i)- The Bible forbade making images of GOD Almighty!
Whatever happened to these Commands from GOD Almighty:
Exodus 20:4
"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below."
Leviticus 26:1
" 'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.
Isaiah 41:29
See, they are all false! Their deeds amount to nothing; their images are but wind and confusion."Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4)"
"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. (From the NIV Bible, Mark 12:29)"

""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"
"God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? (From the NIV Bible, Numbers 23:19)"
"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"
Indeed, Jesus Christ, the man, is only a Messenger from Allah Almighty, and he was never crucified. Isaiah 53 and Psalm 91 are discussed in great details in this link.
مُشاطرة هذه المقالة على:reddit

تعاليق

Harmman420
الخميس سبتمبر 16, 2010 6:16 pmHarmman420
Yet, Christians (Catholics and NON-Catholics) DARE to make images and portraits of Allah Almighty Himself
along with images of Angels, Christ, Mary and others.


Again, please visit: Jesus having long hair is considered stupid by Paul.

(ii)- But the portraits are not images and idols?!
Many many Christians are so superficial in their thinking that they believe that those portraits and graven idols of Allah Almighty and the other creations of Allah Almighty are not the idols and images that the Old Testament verses, above, prohibited.
My response:
This is quite ridiculous and absurd at best! What is it that is impossible to comprehend about whenever you dare to draw or carve a picture or object of Allah Almighty, you are in actuality creating an idol to worship?
Is this how Allah Almighty really looks like?
the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Christian_blasphemy_9 the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Christian_blasphemy_3 the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Christian_blasphemy_10 the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Christian_blasphemy_5
How are these pictures supposed to be in harmony with these verses:Exodus 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below."
Leviticus 26:1 " 'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God."
I say quit this blasphemy that is called christianity, because it is no more than a man-made conjecture, as Allah Almighty specifically called this false religion in the Glorious Quran!
Again, for more verses and details, please visit: Do Muslims really worship the Kaaba?

Also visit: The Overwhelming Scientific Miracles in the Glorious Quran.


3- What is the difference then between the hindu idols and the Kaba?
The comparison is an unfair one because while the Muslims bow down to GOD Almighty and only to GOD Almighty in Worship, the hindus pray to and glorify their idols. They address them as "your divinity" and "your holiness". That's clearly idol worship! You must never confuse the House of GOD Almighty, where GOD and His Servants meet, with the man-made idols and statues. Allah Almighty Said:
"For ye do worship idols besides God, and ye invent falsehood. The things that ye worship besides God have no power to give you sustenance: then seek ye sustenance from God, serve Him, and be grateful to Him: to Him will be your return. (The Noble Quran, 29:17)"
"And he said: "For you, ye have taken (for worship) idols besides God, out of mutual love and regard between yourselves in this life; but on the Day of Judgment ye shall disown each other and curse each other: and your abode will be the Fire, and ye shall have none to help." (The Noble Quran, 29:25)"
"And they set up (idols) as equal to God, to mislead (men) from the Path! Say: "Enjoy (your brief power)! But verily ye are making straightway for Hell!" (The Noble Quran, 14:30)"
"Remember Abraham said: "O my Lord! make this city one of peace and security: and preserve me and my sons from worshipping idols. (The Noble Quran, 14:35)"

The Muslims on the hand are not idol worshipers. And neither were the Bible's Prophets (including Jesus), peace be upon them, who prostrated to GOD Almighty.
There is a difference between worshiping GOD Almighty in the direction of His House, and putting idols and praying to them.


Let's not forget also that the hindus' and the buddhists' idols are statues. The same also for those who worship the fire, sun, moon, stars, etc... Allah Almighty Said:
"Among His Sings are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Adore not the sun and the moon, but adore God, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve. (The Noble Quran, 41:37)"
"They ask thee Concerning the New Moons. Say: They are but signs To mark fixed periods of time In (the affairs of) men, And for Pilgrimage. It is no virtue if ye enter the houses from the back: It is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses Through the proper doors: And fear Allah: That ye may prosper. (The Noble Quran, 2:189)"


4- What about the black stone near the Kaaba? How sacred is it?
The black stone is like the bricks and cement that make up the Kaaba. It is not holy at all and is not worshiped in any shape or form. The black stone is nothing but a Heavenly object (an asteroid) that GOD Almighty descended on earth to determine the exact location of where His House was going to be built by Abraham and his son Ishmael, peace be upon them.


NASA'S CONFIRMATION:
""Stars" falling from the skies have been known since ancient times; rarely, stones are found that were tied to these "shooting stars". One such rock has been venerated by Islam (in its encased shrine in Mecca) for more than 1300 years. By the 19th Century, meteorites were identified correctly as samples from other parts of the Solar System. They are part of the nearly 500 tons of extraterrestrial rock material that reaches and enters the atmosphere each day. Most of that material is burned up by friction from the high speed of entry but meteoric dust can remain in the air and a very few individual blocks of material survive this passage to fall in the sea or on the ground as meteorites." (Source)
"The second city of Saudi Arabia is Mecca which contains the holiest shrine in Islam, a great plaza with a rectangular structure containing a meteorite that is considered to have fallen into the Muslim world directly from Heaven. Devout Muslims make the Hajj, a pilgrimage to this shrine required at least once in a lifetime. Here it is as seen in a Quickbird image:" (Source)
the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Mecca_feb11_2003_DG


An AUDIO file from Dr. Zaghlool Al-Najjar:

The black stone was proven to be a Meteorite sent from space.


Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, claimed that the stone was sent down by Allah Almighty to Prophet Abraham and his son Ishmael, peace be upon both of them, to give the precise location of where the Kaaba was to be built by them. We believe that Prophets Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba. Western Scientists have confirmed that the black stone, which resides near the Kaaba in the Holy City of Mecca, is an outside METEORITE OBJECT!
While Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him kissed the stone before, because it was chosen by Allah Almighty to descend on earth to determine the location of the Kaaba, but that still doesn't make it anything holy.
It certainly makes it a remarkable and noticeable object that is worth visiting and seeing, but anyone who worships it is an idol worshiper! And like I said above, those ignorant and illiterate from the Muslims who go as far as rubbing themselves against the Kaaba and/or the stone to get "blessings" are not representing Islam's True picture at all.
For more information, please visit: The black stone in Mecca is not worshiped by Muslims.


5- Is the Jews' wailing wall idol worship?
Are Jews idol worshipers for praying to GOD Almighty while directly facing the wailing wall in a very close distance?
the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Wailing_wall5 the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Wailing_wall4 the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Wailing_wall3 the muslims do NOT worship the kaaba Wailing_wall2


6- Conclusion:
As I demonstrated and proved above, Islam and the Prophets are far from promoting any form of idol worship. You must never confuse or mix the Worship of GOD Almighty with the worship of man-made idols. The hindus' and buddhists' worship of idols is far from being even remotely compared to Islam. And as we've seen from the Saying of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, above,
لهدم الكعبة حجراً حجراً أهون من قتل المسلم‏

"Demolishing the Kaaba completely is much more preferred to Allah Almighty than shedding the blood of a Believing Muslim." (Source)
It is clear that the Muslims today are the only ones who truly Glorify GOD Almighty in the Maximum way. Even Jesus, the polytheist trinitarian pagans' god, Worshiped GOD Almighty and Glorified Him the Islamic way. Even though it was done hypocritically because he only did it once and during his most desperate times, and he has never done it before, but he still nonetheless showed that the Islamic way is the BEST WAY to really Glorify GOD Almighty in. Of course, the reader needs to know that the Jesus of the Bible is not the same as the Jesus of Islam.
Islam is truly the best Faith to Worship, Praise and Glorify GOD Almighty in. Therefore, embrace Islam and you will be saved
MONEY
السبت ديسمبر 25, 2010 10:41 pmMONEY
شكرا لك على حسن اختيارك للمواضيع
صلاحيات هذا المنتدى:
لاتستطيع الرد على المواضيع في هذا المنتدى